What made you become a guide, and then the leader of an expedition team on ships like this?
I love the ocean. I wanted to live close to it. We left Germany very early, when I was 23 and Julia, my wife, was just 18. We moved to a little island in the Caribbean.

So from there on, basically, I always worked in the ocean, around the ocean, under the ocean, because I am also a dive instructor. I worked in different dive schools, in the hotel industry, and then at one point we had to go back to Germany. I was around 30 then, and of course all the skills I had learned over the years – boats, diving, navigation, adventure tourism – there was not much to do in Germany itself that would really fulfil me. So I looked for other jobs, and that is how I came to expedition.

Where did your expedition career begin?
My first job was with a German expedition company, Hanseatic. And my first expedition was in Antarctica. I started as a Zodiac driver. That was 14 or 15 years ago.

Actually, it is very funny: we are going along the west coast of South America now, and when I started in Antarctica, we did exactly this trip coming north. So in a way, I am back.

Some people call this a relocation cruise. You clearly do not see it as something secondary. Why?
Yes, of course, it is a relocation cruise, because we have to go from A to B, or from B back to A. But all these places are fabulous and beautiful.

In Chile, it is mainly about the fjords and the glaciers. You have a much milder climate than in Antarctica, but you still have beautiful fjords, comparable to the fjords of Norway, sometimes even nicer than the ones in Norway, together with glaciers that you normally only see in polar regions. That combination is very special. You cannot really find it anywhere else.

And now, further north, it gets warmer, so it is very different. This part is more specialised, I would think, for people who are very interested in Inca culture.
If you are a real nature lover, like I am, you still see so many things that you cannot see on other cruises. Tomorrow, for example, when guests go to the Ballestas Islands, they will see South American sea lions, penguins, and some birds you can only see here, like the Inca tern.

People always think the only place to see penguins is Antarctica, but it is not. Here, for example, they can see Humboldt penguins.

If someone asked you what they absolutely should not miss in Chile or Peru, what would you say?
That is very specific to personal interest. But of course, the Nazca Lines are a must. Beyond that, it is difficult to choose just one thing, because all these places with geoglyphs are very special if you are into that kind of thing. And then the coastline itself is beautiful. There is wildlife you do not see anywhere else.

This voyage does not include many Zodiac operations with guests, like in Antarctica. Does that change the feeling of the expedition?
Not really, because we still offer excursions where people can experience wildlife and nature. It is just that this particular crowd is very cultural, so they often choose differently. They want the archaeology, the history, the cities, the Inca culture.
And one thing that is very, very good with Swan Hellenic is that all the included tours are premium tours. They are never simple things like, okay, let us just do a city walk for one hour or two hours in town. They are very expensive, very high-end tours, and they are included. I worked for other companies. That is hardly ever the case.

What has been the most adventurous part
of your work?
If you talk about expedition ships, the first thing for everybody is of course the polar regions. But if you do the polar regions a lot, like I do, then other places can become especially exciting. For example, Guyana, French Guiana and Suriname.

For me, one of the best experiences ever was the Amazon River. People hear “Amazon River” and imagine thousands of animals all around them. It is true there is incredible wildlife, but it is a real jungle, not a zoo. It is very dense. To really see the animals is not that easy, because they hear the boat and they disappear.

But this is where Swan Hellenic is such a plus. When we go to the Amazon, we do not have a fixed itinerary. We take the ship and we go, and then we see what we like, we talk to the locals, we talk to the pilots who have done this before, and we ask: where is a nice place to explore the area? That, for me, is real expedition.

The big ship stops, we launch the Zodiacs, and then we just go. First without guests – we scout. We go into tributaries, around bends in the river, and I have no idea what is behind the next turn. You can look at Google Maps, yes, but it still does not show you what is behind the turn. We go in, we see what is safe, what is possible, how far we can go, and then we come back and do it with the guests. That is real adventure.

You also mentioned French Guiana and Suriname. Why do they attract you?
Because nobody else goes there. That is the thing. We did it for the first time this year, and we are still scouting, still learning, doing things differently every time. Some things work well, some do not work so well, so next time you adjust.

But that is the real adventure for me. You go to places where no cruise ship has really gone before. You do not work from old port reports, because there are none. You have no excursion reports, nothing. You just go there and then you see: oh, this is beautiful, let us do it.

Of course, this can clash a little bit with expectations. We have a five-star ship, yes, but if we really go to places where nobody else goes, they may not be developed for tourism at all. Sometimes you step onto little wooden jetties, not concrete, and there is no tourism infrastructure. But then you get a feeling for a country that nobody else really sees. We had guests who said clearly, “I only do this cruise because you are the only cruise ship going to French Guiana, Guyana and Suriname in one voyage.”

What is the most important practical skill for an expedition leader?
The most important single skill is situational awareness. You need to know what is going on around you. Then, of course, very good planning and very good risk assessment, because, like I said, it is adventure. You do not always know what is there, what is happening.

And then you need to be able to lead a team, because I am only as good as my team is. If my team is not good, I cannot succeed. The guests would not have a good time.

How do you build a strong expedition team?
Of course, people need deep expedition experience.

But it also depends on where we go. In a team, you have different specialists. We have a geologist. We have ornithologists. We have people who are very, very good boat drivers and very good navigators. When we go to regions we do not know, they need to know exactly what they are doing.

But you cannot hire people who are experts in all regions, because that does not exist. Then you need to live 300 years to get all that experience. So when we go to areas like the Amazon, we also hire local experts who help us. On the Amazon River, for example, we had a lady from Brazil, a local expert, and then we had two pilots working with the captain for navigation. So you pull knowledge from different sources. I do not need to know every single bird if I have a person in the team who knows every single bird. If I need geology, I go to the geologist. My job is to run the team, organise the trips, and make sure it is all safe.

Tell me about the team on this voyage.
We have a historian. We have two ornithologists.

Maximus is a historian and ornithologist. Then, of course, we have Tim, who is very, very experienced with boats because he has his own boat and charter business. Julia and I are in the management. Niels is my assistant expedition leader for operations. Again, he is very familiar with boats because he is from Norway and started his business there.

They all have different qualifications, but everybody works very, very well together. And they come from different countries – Argentina, Russia, America, Chile, Great Britain, Germany. We always have many people from different countries, because we also have many guests from different countries. That just makes sense.

How would you explain Swan Hellenic to someone who has never travelled with the company?
Of course, I could say the slogan – go to places where others do not – but that is too easy.

I always say that to have a great expedition, you need three things. First, you need a very good ship, and we have that, because this is a custom-built expedition ship. All the things that were purposely built for the polar regions, you can use everywhere, because the ship is very manoeuvrable. If you go, for example, into the Amazon River where you have very tight turns, these thrusters are fantastic. The ship can really turn on the spot.
Second, you need a very good crew, and we have that. On an expedition ship it is not “us and them.” We all work together. If I make mistakes with the tours, then the captain’s schedule is affected, because if the guests do not come back in time, the ship cannot leave. If I plan tours, I have to work very closely with the hotel team, so they know when people go to dinner, when they come back, when lunch must be ready, all these things. And that works perfectly here.

And third, you need the right guests. Because guests who come on an expedition ship need to understand what it is. It can be adventurous. For some, maybe too adventurous at first. The first two days, for example, some are surprised if they get soaking wet from top to bottom. But then they get into the spirit of it, and they understand that it is much more enjoyable if you really experience the world, not only through a window.

So for you this has nothing to do with a regular cruise ship?
No. If people ask me, “So you work on a cruise ship?”, I always say, no, I work on an expedition ship.

To be honest, and maybe it sounds arrogant, but that is how I see it: if you are on a cruise ship with 5,000 other people, it is not really for cultural enrichment or for wildlife or anything like that. It is basically to eat a lot, drink a lot, go out, have more parties, buy a cheap T-shirt. For me that has nothing to do with expedition.

Here it is exploration of the world. That is the difference. It is about being connected to the place. If you sit on a big ship and only drive by places, it is almost like watching television. So what is the big difference then?

What would you say to someone who is thinking of trying Swan Hellenic for the first time?
I would say: try it if you want to explore. If you want to really see the world, not just pass by it. If you want to understand where you are. If you want to be part of the place, even if only for a short time.

That is what makes Swan Hellenic unique for me. Yes, the ship is beautiful. Yes, the crew is excellent. But the real thing is the spirit. It is expedition spirit. And when ship, crew and guests all share that same goal, then something special happens. Then it is not just travel. Then it becomes a real experience.